Summer Coding Program for Students with Thomas Frackiel of Chicago Public Schools

• Sean

Hello. You’re listening to the K-12 tech podcast, bringing you insights into the world of education, and technology. Stay tuned as we discuss the past, the present, and most importantly, the future of technology in our schools. Hello and welcome to the K-12 tech podcast. My name is Sean. We’re also joined with the Mike Hot seller, and we also have Mr. Thomas Breck. I think I got that right out of Chicago Public Schools who will be joining us today to discuss a very cool summer program that he ran this past summer with some students in the Chicago area. Thomas, I’m going to let you introduce yourself. Give us a little bit about your background, how you got to the position you’re in today, and then we’ll talk about that program and kind of how that all started.

• Thomas

Perfect. Thank you, Sean, for the introduction. So like I said, my name is Thomas Frank Neal from Chicago Public Schools. I’m a technology coordinator here, and I manage all the technology equipment I also have over 1200 students and 100 staff members in high school. So during the summer, I actually ran a program called One Summer Chicago, where students were able to design, implement and actually design their own actual apps that were published in the App Store.

• Sean

Now, is that just I mean, it was at Apple Apps, or was that also Android apps? Did that work on Google Phones, too? I mean, how did so you know, what are some details that kind of went into that development for those apps?

• Thomas

Yes. So we teach a variety of students from 14 to 24 learning the basics of coding and developing app designed using a programing language called Swift. This is called an X coding program where students have MacBooks and iPads and they learn different coding languages. So they’ll be able to actually have an idea, come up with a plan and design an app from scratch.

• Sean

Okay. So is this something that you’ve done in the past then as well? Like yourself, have you designed apps or anything, or is this something you just kind of picked up and learned and then wanted to teach some students how to do it? That we’re interested in the summer.

• Thomas

So in the past years, I’ve actually helped myself to learn, and understand what’s the basics of how to design your own app. And so I’ve been involved with several programs where I was sponsored with other Chicago public schools. And one summer Chicago programs where they were able to recruit students and actually help me develop a curriculum for students to understand how to basically code from the very basics up to actually fundamentally designing their own app in the app store. So I’ve worked with a group of two other individuals and we actually developed an app called I Share where basically students and other individuals can basically come together and show how they can share foods in the Chicago Public Schools location so that food doesn’t go to waste. I share is basically a way so that other schools can basically take their foods that’s being thrown away at the end of the day from the lunchroom.

And they can actually help the community receive different types of foods so that they can help. Those are then struggling in poverty. And basically, it’s like a virtual pantry where people were able to find the locations on their maps to see whether schools have X amount of food that’s being thrown away. They can go to that school before it gets thrown away and actually have a free meal so that they can have a hot serving meal for the day, so that they can have energy and food in their system so they’re not going to sleep hungry and, you know, not having that option to have food.

• Sean

That’s pretty cool. Okay. So how long have you been in the technology landscape, if not just with the school or even outside of schools? I mean, it’s kind of your background and how you got into this.

• Thomas

So I can start by saying in roughly around in 2008 when I was in high school and at Process Career Academy, I was involved with a technology group called Advanced Technology Group. This was a group of individuals that were high school students, who were teaching other students to become leaders in the technology world we have today. This was back when YouTube wasn’t really popular, when there was not really much of feedback to learn about technology. So we actually learned from books. We learned different concepts on how to format, how to design, and how to install all applications on your computer so that it can run faster. And so being involved in this group, I was able to them understand the fundamentals on how to grow and become much involved. The technology that we have today and since then it just was like a snowball effect.

And I’m here now teaching my students how to actually design their own apps and become successful technology entrepreneurs. So you said that this was an app for the App Store. Is it still available or is it specifically tailored just to schools to use? Yes. So we actually were in the stage of right now of actually having my finalists speak to other app developers. We’re actually in the process of making sure that we have all the proper servers installed so that we can have this app published in the App Store. So it’s still in the fundamental stage, but we’re there and we are meeting virtually to make sure that we have all the correct installments installed so that we can get this app published for the public to download.

And so you mentioned speaking with other app developers. Are you working like are they with like other companies or are they like but who exactly are you working with on that front? So I currently work with it. So let me just give a little background history on what one summer Chicago is. So one summer in Chicago was basically an opportunity for students that are in the less poverty area in Chicago, that instead of staying at home, not doing anything the summer, not being productive, this program actually pays the students and this program to actually learn and get paid to design your own app. So it is a 13-week program where students come in, they sign a waiver that they’re receiving a MacBook and an iPad. So that they can use it to take home. And meet virtually so that they can learn step by step to actually design and implement coding language. And if they’re more advanced enough, they will be able to actually take a certificate. It’s called the Swift App Certificate. And if they pass the certification, they’re more than welcome to become sponsored by other sponsors so that they can get other companies to get their apps designed as well. Okay.

• Sean

So starting from I guess, let’s back it up a little bit, starting from the beginning of how this program started and what kind of what went into that what did you guys have to get grants? I mean, how did this idea come up? How did you get students involved? So how did it all kind of start growing?

• Thomas

So we actually received this sponsorship from Chase Bank. They had a not and don’t quote me, I don’t know how much they had received a huge amount of grant funding from Chase Bank that they were receiving to certain types of areas in Chicago that were struggling and kind of having more of a more say struggling neighborhoods. And so they basically located students who are intelligent in school and are receiving college credit in high school. And they actually were able to give that option to learn to code while during the summer and actually were able to learn new technology skills while they’re still in high school. So this program actually recruited students who are more interested in learning about coding and technology acquisitions and other technology-related softwares so that we recruit these students to become coders in our program.

So this basically this program, you learn some of the very fundamentals of basics, of the basics of coding. So we have this summer I led 22 students. I think only five or six of them only actually knew what coding was. Everybody else did not know what coding was. They’re not anything. By the end of the 13 weeks, these students are actually almost building like full skeletons. Application ins that are almost ready to be published. So I think it’s a great achievement for students to learn something on their spare time, receiving a little bit of like a stipend from the program, and also learning something new so that they can become better and more technology-related in their career paths. Yeah, I know when I was in high school, the.

• Mike

Most I learned was, HTML and cc and I never did any swift. I’m just now learning JavaScript and Google Scripts to try to make all that better. So I always try something like that when I was in high school because I sound like.

• Sean

I don’t wanna I don’t want to one-up you but all that took was a keyboarding class and I learned how to type.

• Thomas

So it takes on the very basics of a student having the curiosity of what technology is and how it develops for them to spark up a new interests that they never actually knew before. So in my personal experience, I always loved technology. It was like taking stuff apart, you know? I used to have like a mechanical pencil as a kid and take it all apart. And I was like, How does this work? You know, it’s like, what’s a motherboard? What’s a computer? You know? And then I broke at home and then all you got to take it to the technician and then there’s like a two-week break period. So instead of waiting, I was always the one that’s like, Oh, how do you fix this?

Let me fix that myself, you know? And so I met this high school group there. I met similar students just like me. And then I was like, Oh, this is something really interesting. I want I definitely want to put my, you know, time and effort into making this program something better, you know? And so that was kind of a groundbreaking point for me to make sure that if I can learn at a young age, I want to see how other students and how their how other individuals can learn techniques to become more involved with technology in the world we have today.

• Sean

So what’s the startup process like for a program like the one that you run over the summer and how long have you how long have that program been running for?

• Thomas

So one summer. Chicago, actually, this is going to be their fourth summer. So this is one of the programs that we have featured from Chicago that actually has a paid opportunity for students to enroll. There’s an enrollment process that the students need to first fill out. Once they get involved, they fill out an application, they get selected, and then they get put into four or five different cohorts. Start the city. I was I actually had the opportunity to work with 22 young individuals and I actually had an opportunity to work with a teacher assistant. So the way we taught this class was that we met two days in person and two days online. So it was kind of flexibility for you to have those COVID restrictions and still make sure that we can have the opportunity for students to actually interact with each other and also meet online so they can be more flexible as well.

We hosted I hosted off Friday nights and Fridays to make like kind of like office hour day. So those students that actually needed a one on one attention needed to ask those questions, like I always made sure that my students understood. There’s no silly question, you know, there’s never an opportunity for someone to say, Oh, this is a stupid question. Oh, this is you know, there’s nothing like that at my door was always open. I want to make sure that my students are comfortable. If you don’t understand something, reach out and let me know. You want to make sure that you understand. You know, we have a curriculum that the students follow. And some, you know, some students might be too fast-paced or it might be too hard to understand.

So I tried to break it down to them to make sure that they actually understand the concept of what we covered during that class period. And so that when they come into the class, next time they’ll be able to keep up and understand what the next concepts are.

• Sean

So are they taking in an idea in their head and just turning it into an app of some sort? Or is there a lot more of a guided scenario where you guys are sort of I don’t want say suggesting, but like moving them toward a goal for some sort of app or I mean, they just coming up with it, and then they’re just going to run with that idea?

• Thomas

So this year’s motto we had so that the students can think of a better future for tomorrow, how can you better the community that you live in today? So we all live in a different community. They have different needs. You know, some students said we need to fix gang violence. We need to fix, you know, littering outside. We need to fix people with not being able to cross the road. You know, one student actually had an idea so that they can if you if you pick up trash in a like a park, you know, and then you can have like a recycling center, right? You can swipe your card. It will tell you how much water bottles or trash are recycled. And you actually get like these types of credits so that you can actually purchase more products in the store.

For example, Coca-Cola would sponsor the student or in a way, if you pick up, let’s say, 1000 water bottles, you receive $100 in Coca-Cola products or something like that. You know, another student had an idea that they’re in a community that there’s not much supply for trucks to be delivered in stores. Right. So a student had an idea where if if you see an item being like on the shelf in the store, not being quickly supplied, for example, like not enough toilet paper, not enough like Windex, for example. Right? The student will actually take a picture of the shelf like, look, it’s an empty shelf. And then actually it will trigger other vendors in the nearby area where trucks can actually deliver that specific type of resource to that store so they can have enough supply for other people to purchase. There’s many different varieties. So every student had a different idea that they were supposed to help and implement ways to make the community a much better and safer environment for on a daily basis.

For example, another student came up with kind of like a safe haven. So that when the student is actually walking home from school or walking home from practice from an after-school activity, and it’s dark outside. Right. We all know, like around winter time, around like four, 430. It’s really dark outside. Right. So this girl actually was impacted her trigger, you know, a problem that she personally had when she was walking home from soccer practice. It was pretty late and she felt like someone was following her at nighttime. So she designed an app where you can press a button and actually going to make up a fake phone call so that you actually pick up your phone. You’re actually talking to someone and you’re not really talking to someone. So that would actually help that individual scare off anybody else in the area so that they can kind of understand that they’re not alone, that they that they’re actually on a phone call.

So they kind of like would back off. So these kids have the really unique and creative ideas that I’ve never heard before. So I always like to ask them questions like what, what, what kind of problems do you face today? What did you encounter today? That was a problem. And every day these students would come up with maybe like, you know, I don’t like this going on in my neighborhood, I don’t like this. And I was like, okay, how can we fix it? Well, I don’t know how to fix it. Well, let’s make an app so that you can fix it. And then that idea, Sky Rockets, and they have these really creative ideas that they never thought of before. And then after the 13-week program, they actually were like, Wow, I can’t believe this problem I solved that by making this app.

• Sean

That’s that phone call. One’s actually a really good idea. None of you listeners out there steal that from that girl, by the way.

• Thomas

That is copyrighted already, so. Oh, perfect.

• Sean

So I know that you supply the students with a MacBook. You give them an iPad outside of those two devices. Once they’re done with that summer camp program, how would a student or anyone continue that development of an app if they wanted to the next year or during the school year, whatever? If they don’t have those supplies with them anymore, can you just do it on a regular Chromebook? I mean, what do you need to like to continue development of an app?

• Thomas

That’s a really good question, Sean. So we’re actually learning that we’re developing another program called the App Accelerator Program. This would be an out of the 160 students we had this summer, I believe only 15 students were selected for this app accelerator program. This program would actually show me a kind of backup a little bit. Okay. So every cohort that we had, I had 22 students.  Every student was able to pair in a group of three or four individuals and they were able to pitch their idea to the local neighborhood. They would have some judges that would be able to score their apps and their ideas, and those students would advance to the next level. And so out of the 160 students, we would have a top ten showcase, and then those students were showcased to the community, and then we would have a top three. And then, you know, once we have the top three, we can introduce Apple engineers and then they can actually help them further to develop the app to become actual published apps and app store. So with that being said, if students that finished the program that don’t have technology equipment at home, we would love to implement something in the near future that the students can lease out or borrow this expensive equipment so that they can use, however, X code and swift programming languages are free online.

It’s a free software that literally anybody can download today. All you need to have is your internet connection and if they kind of got a little bit more faster computer to run the software. Unfortunately, Chromebooks that we use in Chicago public schools can’t support the software. Only Windows or Mac. Mac computers can run the software. So the student and or individual that’s learning to code would actually need their own computer equipment that’s powerful enough to run the software.

• Sean

Okay. So let’s say I’m one of your students in the summer program, right? And I came up with this app that is pretty great and I want to actually get it published into the Apple App Store or the Google Store or whatever. Is there a cost to the student or whoever develops an app to actually put it into the app store? Or is it that free to do? And then you people pay for the download.

• Thomas

So Apple has a configuration where you have to submit your project to a qualifying candidate. That person would review your application and then you would receive a demo download you would have. Then the general public would be able to download your app and get feedback from it. Then you can modify your application to add more code or modify specific things in your app. Then it gets into a finalized stage where Apple engineers and other people from Apple would actually review your code reviewer application. What’s the purpose of it? Does it have a actual reason for it to be installed on someone’s application device? And then there’s actually, I believe there’s a one-year subscription where you have to pay a server application to actually have your application installed on the App Store.

So there is a process, but you have to go to an application process to get it published. This prevents actually the reason they have this is because they would prevent unnecessary applications on the App Store for people to download and or prevent fraud and or, you know, scams and stuff like that. So this is the kind of like the security is really high and it makes sense why they have those applications in place, which.

• Sean

Is funny because they have a lot of unnecessary apps like no one needs an air horn on their phone. I’m sorry, but you don’t know. There are plenty of unnecessary apps out there. But I do understand, like malware and spyware and things like that. And so are there any apps? I know we talked about a few that your students were working on over the summer and made or whatever. But are there any that have actually been published into the Apple store or the Google store that are available for download for anyone that’s listening that might want to download something that, you know, a high schooler made?

• Thomas

At this time? Not yet. We’re actually this year we were ranked 11th out of ten. So we were just at the cutoff line. We had students in the past that were actually were able to speak to Apple engineers and actually make appointments and actually meet their actual prototype online. And they were able to get the final stage, but not actually in the App Store. My dream is to actually have students want finalize a group of maybe because it takes a group of people you know like I said, I always start off with the example what like Facebook, right? Mark Zuckerberg. Right. He started the app by himself, right? But he published it by myself. No, there was like a whole train of people behind him and extra engineers and actually coders that actually helped design the app.

It’s a pretty basic app, right? You just publicly post your picture, you post the status, right? And you can see like the marketplace and like search up your friends. And it’s pretty simple, right or wrong. There are thousands and thousands of lines of code and other concepts that we need to understand. So for students to publish something in the next 13 weeks, it’s kind of hard for them. I wish this program would run longer so that this way the students can actually have the opportunity to understand the full fundamentals of everything that needs to be learned. But we’re almost there like this year we were just at the cutoff line, so unfortunately our students weren’t able to have sponsors with our Apple people from California and Silicon But we hopefully by next year, we’ll get more stronger candidates and we’ll be able to get something up and running.

• Mike

So you mentioned this cut-off line. So what is that? Is that for I guess like what’s that in relation to is that they only accept a certain amount of application app like app, I guess apps application for that process. Is that what that is or is it something different?

• Thomas

Yes. So every summer we host our app showcase. And like I mentioned before, it’s kind of like an elimination kind of factor where they basically would showcase their app ideas. Every community would have their own specific category. My students would have a community showcase in our network. And then the other four locations will actually have their own community showcases as well. And from those groups we would select our top two players or two groups, I should say, and they would advance our second finalists. And from the second finalist, we would have a top ten and those top ten would be a top three. Those top three is the ones that basically would have the opportunity to work with other sponsors to get this app published.

• Sean

So I just thought of a great idea for an app. You can steal it if you want to. It needs to pick the fantasy football players that are going to win that week and not get hurt and if it’s million dollar idea right there.

• Thomas

But I think, you know, if all it takes is one idea, you take that one idea, you find maybe two other people to have similar interests. You combine together and you can definitely make that work.

• Sean

Sean, I only say that because Mike beat me last week and I’m still salty about it, but I’m so it’s so you keep mentioning like, yeah, it is. It’s 13 weeks short, right? No one’s going to I assume it’s very hard to come up with an idea for an app, build that app and then get it to the Apple store or Google Store within 13 weeks with no flaws and whatever. Is this something that you could see being implemented in the high schools as a course for the entire school year? Or is it something that really is more of a short-term camp kind of scenario?

• Thomas

Yes, I’m actually talking to other school districts and actually other teachers in the technology field myself and I. This does definitely need to be the main course for students to learn in a high school setting with a school year being ten months with ten-month time frame. And if you have a students that work specifically towards coding and app design, you will definitely have a more concrete structure and you’ll be able to understand all the fundamentals that are needed to actually design an app from beginning to end. Like I said, 13 weeks is a short period of time. So but I do have to say, then when my students join my cohort and my class, they don’t know anything. You know, they don’t understand any coding concepts. You know, when they leave from my class, they actually can roughly design their own apps on their MacBooks by themselves, you know, so that that in itself is a really strong fundamental for students when they do go into high school.

And do they have the opportunity to learn that coding language in school, they’ll have a strong, strong introduction on how to actually make this a good introduction to their class, to actually sexually have a strong, fundamental to actually pursue everything that they’re learning in this class.

• Sean

So my only knowledge of anything in the coding world was when I watched the Uber documentary film and saw that. So I understood it definitely. It definitely takes a lot. And then you have the computing potter power and the servers needed to support all of that. But are there so are your students designing applications like, you know, click in whatever applications where you’re just hitting a few buttons or are they doing like games and things like that? Like is someone working on the next Candy Crush? You’re like, What? What, exactly are they building?

• Thomas

Yes. So just a quick understanding. So when we first learn coding, even from those that never coded before, you first start off with a two plain kind of factor fundamentals so you don’t learn about three dimensional until later on in the coding concepts. So as we all know, probably back in the day where Flappy Bird was a game where the little Bird was hopping through those posts, not many people remember, but it was one of those most common games that people played. It was a flat surface game where, you know, a little bird was jumping from the side of the screen to the right side. Actually, it wasn’t moving, the screen was moving, and that little bird was actually planted, you know. So it wasn’t actually three-dimensional. But my students are mostly learning about just flat-faced applications when they first start off.

So for example, one of the very first projects my students build is called a flashlight app, right? Everyone has the flashlight app on their iPhone, right? It’s literally one of those apps that we all use. There’s no power in the house. Where’s my phone? You know, like there’s my flashlight, right? It’s literally one of those first apps, you know. So the first app we do is actually we create a button in our main module and then we actually code those concepts so that when the user does press the button, the background turns from black to white. You know? And another concept we learn from the very fun fundamentals is like a red or like a traffic light, right?

So let’s say you’re approaching a traffic light, right? When you press the red button, it flashes the concepts of stop, say yellow is a slowdown, it’s green cells go. So the students actually learn the fundamentals on how to press and interact with different buttons on a screen and how they can configure from one button to another. You know, so when we talk about game design and actually 3D like shooting games and like puzzles and like all these other cool features, you know, it takes years and it takes a group of many people to design this. You know, when we think about basic apps like Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter, right? How are they all the same? They’re all flat-faced applications, right? Where you basically take your thumb a finger and you scroll up to the next page, you scroll down to refresh, and so forth, like just like your email, right? That sort of flat-faced application where everything’s on one page and you know, there’s no like other three dimensional on it. So students learned from those fundamentals first and then they can eventually go to app design if they choose to go that path.

• Sean

So it sounds like the structure of this course or camp or program, whatever you want to call it, is everyone’s kind of in the same place at the same time at the beginning, learning the fundamentals. Right. I mean, you can’t build anything without fundamentals once they get through those fundamentals. I mean, at what point do you kind of just set them on their own and say, hey, here’s develop something and you go?

• Thomas

I honestly think by week two or three, I mean, it’s right then and then, you know, so I pitched the idea that that the students need to have every student has an idea. You know, I think the first fundamental is for them to not be shy and be able to speak about it. I think that’s after we pass that boundary of them, like, okay, will you have to speak up to see how you feel and what you want to create? Do you have to say something once they pass that boundary, it’s kind of like a rocket. Like they just go off by themselves, you know, they choose their own groups. They find similar students that have similar interests and they design their own apps. So if you want to add one app or one group of students in my cohort designed, they were trying to go off with the application called Offer Up.

Are you guys familiar with that app? It’s basically where you just post something that you don’t want anymore. It’s sort of tossing it away or throwing it away. Yeah, and sort of instead of throwing it away, trashing, I just put it on there for a couple of pictures on there, put a price tag and see like, Hey, you want to meet up at this McDonald’s or, you know, and then, you know, you exchange those gifts, you know, instead of actually selling the items this group of students actually wanted to have. So they want to help their community by those are who are less unfortunate. Right. So I’m going to ask Sean and Mike, just real quickly, who has do you guys have a PlayStation three or an Xbox that you guys did you guys play your Xbox or PlayStation last week? So I have both.

• Sean

And I haven’t turned either of them on in probably two.

• Thomas

Years. Two years. Okay. Perfect example. Right. So it’s right now, it’s at home, it’s collecting dust, right? So this group of students were like, okay, well, I have my s three or four or five sitting at home collecting. That’s great. So I’m going to have an app called Forgot was a call. Those include let’s call it I exchange right so they can post a picture on their website on the app. They take a picture of their, let’s say, iPhone or PS4. They took a picture of it, pay me like $5 a month and you can borrow my PlayStation so that you can use it. And then you have to bring it back at the end of the month and you just get five bucks, right? So it’s a win-win situation.

So it helps those that don’t are less fortunate, that don’t have an Xbox or PS or any other device that they need. And the person that actually just sitting on a home can collect a few cash. So it’s kind of those kinds of ideas are students have are you know it’s a great and I feel like I wish I had those opportunities when I was younger because for example, like I really, you know, like everybody else, right? I have like thousands of games, thousands of PlayStation four games, and stuff. And they’re just sitting there, you know, they’re not really being used. You know what? If you can just like borrow it to someone else, that actually would to play those, you know, and or, you know, everyone has living different, you know, situation financially, you know, so maybe their parents can afford the games or maybe, you know, they’re struggling to pay their mortgage or apartment bills and stuff like, you know, and what if you had that app to actually help those people out, you know?

So these students have these ideas and they come up with a concept and how they can help the world. And that’s how it sparks up.

• Sean

I think this is a really awesome program. I think you’re very passionate about it. So let’s pretend that I’m a superintendent of a school and you are pitching this idea to me and telling me how to start it, how would that conversation look?

• Thomas

So what if I were to pitch my idea to convince a school to have my program at your school? I think at first I start off by saying what kind of technology, what kind of technology programs do you currently have at your school that are helping students for tomorrow. And if they say there is none, and then I can start by saying, well, by learning coding languages and then technology, app design, you can actually help a student become prepared for the career path of becoming a programmer or an app designer. And then, you know, making sure that, you know, that students that do have those interests will be able to be involved in these programs. Now, many students and schools have the opportunity, but if they do have the sponsorship to host these programs, you should definitely consider having these programs. Students look forward to technology. They love seeing new technology aspects in school.

Again, it’s a huge audience that people want to join. You know, if you want to see if you don’t believe me, you can just survey the students. You know, the students love the students will speak for themselves. You know, this program will definitely enhance new students to become better people for tomorrow. If you take an opportunity to host a program at your school.

• Sean

So do you guys do anything other than coding for apps? I mean, are you I know some schools have robotics or 3D printers or whatever other technology you can implement into, but essentially a computer program. Are you guys are you doing anything with that side of stuff as well? Or is it mostly geared toward apps and things you can do on your phone?

• Thomas

Not yet, but my school does have 3D printing and we do have an A engineering class where students actually learn how to 3D print different models on their own computers. We do have STEM classes. However, the STEM classes mostly focus on the mathematical and, you know, science and robotics but not really necessarily coding. So I think coding should definitely be implemented in every school district and every school because it does create a better environment for the students because it gives them the opportunity to understand how things work in the technology world we live in today.

• Sean

What does it take either fiscally, time-wise, or gear-wise? What does it take to start a program like the one you have for any school out there that’s thinking about putting together a coding class?

• Thomas

So I think when you first think about first, you have to figure out which age group you want to target. If you’re looking into more the elementary school level, you know, you kind of want to think about having the very basics of like block coding, for example, having the students actually touch blocks and like touching Legos and making understood that, you know, how a little froggy can jump from two squares up and turn right and stuff like that. If you’re talking about middle school, you want to make sure that they have a little bit more hands-on, you know, so introduce a software where the students can be more engaged in one time talking at a higher older student level like high school. I think a good fundamental would have a science lab or computer lab where students can come together and actually learn how these operations and technology works in a school environment, you know, specifically with coding.

MacBooks are expensive laptops, you know, they’re really expensive, you know. But if you invest the money and good equipment and good warranty enhancements, you can definitely expand your life on the equipment itself. It will pay for itself in the long run. To start up this program, I think you need at least a couple of thousand dollars to invest in good equipment. You know, if you’re looking into an older group, you definitely need advanced technology, laptops or desktops, or equipment to run these programs so that you can actually run. You won’t be able to do it unless, I should say weaker like Chromebooks because those are kind of more of a Google classroom, an online learning platform where they can just talk the camera, talk to a teacher’s face to face. But if you’re looking at starting up a coding program, you need more equipment. So I think MacBooks and laptops and iPads are great resources in a school environment to start up a program like coding and app design.

• Sean

So what’s next? Thomas Who’s who’s going to design the best app?

• Thomas

I could be. It could be my students. I mean I mean, I wish I wish I can’t speak for all of them. You know, they are really creative. And if I have an opportunity, I will definitely reach out to all my students to see if maybe we can host another meeting with all of those together. But you hear some of the ideas they have, you know, I mean, they teach me something new every day. I’m in class, you know, like, I mean, it’s like, well, I never knew about that. Like, how did you do that? You know? And I can teach them coding and coding languages and applications, but then they also include the things that they learn on a daily basis as well, you know. So these young students and young coders are so creative and so innovative to change the world. It’s really fascinating to see.

• Sean

I do appreciate you coming on. If there’s anything you want to plug in, if you have any YouTube channels or anything that you want to talk about, feel free to go ahead and send out a plug.

• Thomas

I’m just looking forward to speaking to future people that will want to connect with me. I would be happy to join your podcasts. I know that Mike and Sean are great hosts and if you guys are looking for more podcasts and more information to be shared from K one please feel free to reach out to them, reach out to me, myself, and I look forward to the next conversation.

• Sean

Yeah, absolutely. Well, Thomas, thank you so much for coming on the K-12 tech podcast. It’s been a pleasure talking to you for all of our listeners. Please like and subscribe again. Thank you very much for listening. Thomas Thank you for joining us. And that is all we have for today.